Refuting false doctrines about The Father

Fred R. Coulter—February 10, 2018

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[Transcript begins at 1:26 of audio]

We're going to look at some different Scriptures in the Old Testament. We have to look at them carefully and understand what they say.

This is the message from Nathan when David wanted to build the temple, 2-Samuel 7:12: "And when your days are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your father… [you're going to die; you're not going to build a temple for Me, because you're a bloody man] …I will set up your seed after you who shall come forth from your loins. And I will make his kingdom sure. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be to him for a father, and he shall be to Me for a son…" (vs 12-14).

Does this establish the God of the Old Testament as the Father? No, it just tells the kind of relationship that He would have with Solomon! Doesn't make Him the Father. If He were the Father, it would have been phrased differently. This actually, when you looked at it, proves that the God of the Old Testament was not God the Father, because the God of the Old Testament had to tell him that if he does well—that goes on with the rest of it—'I will be like a father to him.'

Can that happen with different people in their relationships today? Yes! Even though they're not the actual father.

Let's just look at the result of the New Testament Father. Remember what was the most important verse in John 14? The one who loves Me will keep My Word and the Father will love him and We will come to him and make Ourabode—or dwelling place—with him!

The key to understanding the Father relationship in the New Testament is the Father relationship with God the Father. In the Old Testament they had a relationship with the One Who became Jesus Christ. He was never called The Father, but could He have a relationship with Solomon, as a father to a son? Why would He say that? Because Solomon was very young!

If He were the Father, He wouldn't have to say, 'I would be like a father.' He would say, 'I am the Father.'

Let's look at another one. Isa. 9 is a very, very perplexing Scripture, a prophecy of the birth of Christ.

Isaiah 9:6: "For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulders; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

When will Jesus become a Father? After the marriage with the Church! All those coming into the Kingdom of God,through the Millennium, will be the children of the Church and Christ. He will be an Everlasting Father, because He lives forever.

That's pretty hard for them to figure out, because this actually disproves the theory that the God of the Old Testament was God the Father. If He was the Father of the Old Testament, why would Jesus have to reveal Him? Wouldn't have to be revealed. Just to clarify: God the Father is a Father to those whom He calls!

We'll jump a little bit ahead to Passover. Who is spared the Passover night in Egypt? Firstborn! If He didn't spare them, all the rest of the children of Israel would have lived, because the curse was only on the firstborn. They were special to God.

God said, 'Set aside the firstborn of man and beast for Me,' special to God. That was a fore-type of the Church. God the Father is the One Who calls us and draws us, and so forth. But we are in a relationship with God the Father that only Christ could reveal and only the Father could execute! That is having God's Spirit, so that we, who will be in the first resurrection, are called the Church of the Firstborn!

So, all the firstborn were a type of Christ—because He was the only Begotten, the Firstborn of Mary, the Firstborn from the dead—and we, for those whom God is calling, are the Church of the Firstborn and having the Spirit of God the Father and Jesus Christ. We are in a totally different relationship than those in the Old Testament. No place in the Old Testament does it say, 'We will make Our dwelling in them.'

Psalm 89:20: "I have found David, My servant…" He's talking about the promise given to David for building the house and the continuation of the throne. This is by Ethan the Ezrahite (v 1). This was one of the priests who came back with Ezra.

What were the circumstances of the kingdom of Judah at that time, when they came back out of the Babylonian captivity? They didn't have the throne and they didn't have a king! That's why you have to look at why Jeremiah had the daughters of the king. They come back and they can't have a king. The Persians would not let them have a king. A governor was okay, but not a king.

Here's Ethan the Ezrahite. If you read this carefully, this is really an extended complaint against God. 'Why don't we have a king when You said the throne would be established forever?' You might want to read that from that point of view. That will help you understand it.

Verse 20: "I have found David, My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him. My hand shall be established with him; My arm also shall strengthen him" (vs 20-21).

What he's doing is he's rehearsing all of the promises given to David, so that he was going to, in a way, force God to admit something. But God never admitted it.

His complaint is, 'God, You made all these promises. You've said all of these things and here we are. We don't have a throne and we don't have a king, but You promised.' He ended up at the end, 'You're God and we'll wait on you.' So, he ended up okay.

Verse 21: "My hand shall be established with him; My arm also shall strengthen him. The enemy shall not extract from him, nor the son of wickedness afflict him. And I will beat down his foes before his face and plague those who hate him. But My faithfulness and My mercy shall be with him; and in My name his horn shall be exalted. I will set his hand also in the sea and his right hand in the rivers. He shall cry to Me, 'My Father, You are my God, and the Rock of my salvation'" (vs 21-26).

Look at that very carefully. Will David be in the first resurrection? Of course! This is a prophecy of the first resurrection and David calling God the Father 'My Father,' and Christ 'the Rock of Salvation.' This does not make the God of the Old Testament the Father! This is a prophecy of the Father, by David, being recited by Ethan the Ezrahite.

Referring to all the corruption that they have (Deut. 32:5): Deuteronomy 32:6: "Is this the way you pay back to the LORD, O foolish and unwise people? Is He not your Father Who bought you? Has He not made you and established you?"

This is the only Scripture that comes close to where you could interpret that it was God the Father in the Old Testament. But one Scriptures does not undo all the others; it has to be taken in context.

Verse 7: "Remember the days of old; consider the years of many generations. Ask your father, and he will show you; your elders, and they will tell you. When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when He separated the sons of Adam…'" (vs 7-8).

  • When did that happen? Gen. 11!
  • What was said there by God? 'Let Us…'

That includes the Most High, Who became the Father, and the Lord God of the Old Testament. This one we can say does not totally refute that theory, but one Scripture cannot undo all the rest of the Old Testament.

Isaiah 63:15: "Look down from heaven, and look down from the place of Your Holiness and of Your glory. Where is Your zeal and Your strength, the multitude of Your tender affections and of Your mercies toward me?.…" This is Israel calling out:

Verse 8: "…'Surely they are My people…'"

Verse 15: "…Are they withheld? For You are our Father, though Abraham does not know us…" (vs 15-16).

This doesn't change the God of the Old Testament to being God the Father. It's just merely saying that God, in that sense, is a father through Abraham. We'll see that in John 8.

"…though Abraham does not know us, and Israel does not acknowledge us. You, O LORD, are our Father, our Redeemer; Your name is from everlasting" (v 16).

Does this blend into the beginning of the Millennium when they will understand about the Father and they will understand about Christ. Christ will become their Father? Very likely! Again, we find no established words that say that God the Father was the Father of the Old Testament! It shows:

  • the Most High
  • the Ancient of Days
  • some prophecies into the future

Isaiah 64:8: "But now, O LORD, You are our Father; we are the clay, and You are our potter; and we all are the work of Your hand." That's a prophecy of the Church!

Remember, the Old Testament has it this way: you go along and it talks about one topic. All of sudden there's an injection of another topic that doesn't fit exactly. This is one of those.

The Gospel of John is very important when we understand it was John who supervised the canonization of the New Testament. There are certain things that when you look at the Greek tell us that this particular part of it is added in later. Let's look at one of those in John 3.

John 3:13: "(And no one has ascended into heaven, except He Who came down from heaven, even the Son of man, Who is in heaven.)"

  • Why is that there?
  • Interjected right here?
  • Remember what Paul wrote?

'Some of you who say there's no resurrection…and some of you who say the resurrection is over'!

  • What was the prevailing philosophy and religion of the Greeks?

Immortal soul and those who were the important people ascended up into the heavens!

  • Could it be that there were those who were saying, 'Mary ascended into heaven'?
  • Could it be that they were saying that the other apostles who had died ascended into heaven?
  • Why is this put here and in a parenthetical statement?

Because there was a problem concerning the resurrection!

As you analyze the book of John you will see that it addresses certain problems that would have come up later. Jesus never said those words, even if it's red lettered in the King James Version.

After He told them if one is born again, he's like the wind, v 10: "Jesus answered and said to him, 'You are a teacher of Israel, and you do not know these things? Truly, truly I say to you, We speak that which We know, and We testify of that which We have seen; but you do not receive Our testimony'" (vs 10-11).

He's talking about Himself and the apostles and also the testimony of the Father. The testimony of the Father came through Christ.

Verse 12: "If I have told you earthly things, and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?"

Verse 14: "And even as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, in the same way…"

This verse is put right in there at a point to make sure that everyone knew the only One Who ascended into heaven was Christ! No one else! This was a problem and it's right there in the 'born again' section. 'That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.'

When you die, you're in the grave. The spirit goes back to God, but there's no consciousness. Just like with the recorder that I have. It cannot produce anything unless there is a chip in it. Our spirit that goes back to God, which is perfected, is much like a chip on storage. Be put into a new spiritual body and a new spiritual mind. That's why you have the section on 'born again.' That's why that verse is there to make sure that everyone understood no one goes to heaven!

When John wrote that, this was probably added in when he was very old, when they were finalizing the New Testament. Likewise with:

John 1:18: "No one has seen God at any time…"

Gen. 32—the account of Jacob where he wrestled with God all night. Remember the sermon on flesh and bone: News, Flesh & Bone, & New Testament Fraud. The way God appears to mankind, not in His glorified form, but as flesh and bone as he did with the disciples after the resurrection. As He probably did with Adam and Eve. So, we have the same situation here. Jacob was wrestling with God:

Genesis 32:29: "And Jacob asked and said, 'I pray You, reveal Your name.' And He said, 'Why do you ask after My name?' And He blessed him there. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, 'For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.'" (vs 29-30).

That's closer than all the Israelites were, because they were at the base of the mountain. The only one any closer than it was here with Jacob was Moses when he was on up on the mountain with God, or when God was with Adam and Eve.

IF, as it's written in John 17, "No one has seen God at any time…" how do you explain Gen. 29:30 unless there are two: the Lord God and the Most High in the Old Testament, and God the Father and Jesus Christ in the New Testament? You can't explain it any other way!

IF that is not true, then this would be a contradiction and a contradiction would present a problem that there are lies. If there's one lie—John says that 'not one lie can come of the Truth—then people would say that if this is lie, then why trust all the rest of it?

Do you suppose that the Apostle John was familiar enough with the Scriptures to understand that passage in Gen. 29:30? Yes, indeed!

Therefore, if the God of the Old Testament were the Father, then Jacob saw Him and you would have to say in John 1:18: "No one has seen God at any time…"—except Jacob!

This is put in there to clarify, because don't you think that the scribes and Pharisees of the high priest also had the doctrine that the doctrine that God of the Old Testament was their Father. This is directly clarifying everything.

John 1:18: ""No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, Who is in the bosom of the Father…" Why is He in the bosom of the Father? Because He was resurrected from the dead! So, this was written well after the resurrection. He has declared Him.

Go through John 1 and start out, like most of the other Gospels, with John the Baptist and set aside those other verses and you will see that those are add-ons to clarify. Just like the one in John 3.

John 5:17—after being questioned why He healed a man on the Sabbath: "But Jesus answered them, 'My Father is working until now, and I work.' So then, on account of this saying, the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, not only because He had loosed the Sabbath, but also because He had called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God" (vs 17-18).

This tells you that the Jews believed in just one God; they didn't even believe the Old Testament.

Verse 19: "Therefore, Jesus answered and said to them, 'Truly, truly I say to you, the Son has no power to do anything of Himself, but only what He sees the Father do. For whatever He does, these things the Son also does in the same manner. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him everything that He Himself is doing. And He will show Him greater works than these, so that you may be filled with wonder'" (vs 19-20).

What was that greater work? The resurrection from the dead! Then He talks about the resurrection.

John 5:36: "But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works that the Father gave Me to complete, the very works that I am doing, themselves bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. And the Father Himself, Who sent Me, has borne witness of Me. You have neither heard His voice nor seen His form at any time" (vs 36-37).

When Jesus was baptized, a voice from heaven said, 'This is My Son in Whom I have great delight, or well pleased, listen to Him.' How many times did that happen? Once, when He was baptized! Then when there was the Mount of Transfiguration

How many people were around there when Jesus was baptized? Were any of the scribes and Pharisees? If there were any of them around when Jesus was baptized and that voice came and said, 'This is My Son in whom I am well pleased,' and all the people that were there, did they all hear it? IF they did, and if that was the voice of the Father, then they heard it! If it was spoken by an angel conveying a message from the Father, it was a voice!

Therefore, if it was really the Father Who said that, then Jesus' words here would not be true, because they would have heard it.

Now then the other instance where they were on the Mount of Transfiguration. Same thing happened. In the paper that we covered last week in #2, they put all of these in sequence and referred to them as multiple times (Study paper from Pacific Church of God). But how many times were there actually?

  • once when Jesus was baptized
  • once on the Mount of Transfiguration

And the disciples heard the voice. Jesus told them, 'Tell no man about this until after the Son of man is raised from the dead.'

John 12:27: "Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? Father, save Me from this hour? But for this very purpose I have come to this hour."

If you follow the chronology of what was taking place in those days, this was on the 10th day of the first month. What was supposed to happen on the 10th day of the 1st month? Select the Passover lamb! Is Jesus called our Passover Who was sacrificed for us? Yes, He is! Would the Father then select Him on that day?

Verse 28: "Father glorify Your name.' Then a voice… [if it says a voice, it doesn't tell us who said it] …came from heaven, saying 'I have glorified it and will glorify it again.' Then the people standing there, who heard it… [Was it clear to them? No!] …said, 'It thundered.' Others said, 'An angel spoke to Him.' Jesus answered and said, 'This voice did not come because of Me, but because of you'" (vs 28-30).

Why? To save them from their sins! He was selected, but none of them understood it. You can't say this is the Father's voice. Jesus heard it, but the people heard some thunder. Very interesting.

Jesus repeats this phrase over and over again. John 6:33: "For the Bread of God is He Who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world." They wanted to have this bread, that they could eat it always!

Verse 35: "Jesus said to them, 'I AM the Bread of Life; the one who comes to Me shall never hunger; and the one who believes in Me shall never thirst at any time. But as I said to you, you also have seen Me, yet, you do not believe. All whom the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I did not come down from heaven to do My own will, but the will of Him Who sent Me. And this is the will of the Father Who sent Me: that of all whom He has given Me, I should not lose any, but should raise them up in the last day. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me…'" (vs 35-40). Where is the Father? In heaven!

Verse 41: "…'I AM the Bread that came down from heaven.' And they were saying…'Why then does He say, "I came down from heaven"?'" (vs 41-42).

Verse 46: "No one has seen the Father except He Who is from God; He has seen the Father."

You tie all of these together: No one has seen God at any time! That's always referring to the Father. The Father is not going to come down to the earth until New Jerusalem. He has given us of His Holy Spirit as a begettal. He deals with us as His children spiritually. But we don't see Him directly. We don't hear Him directly, but He guides us spiritually.

Verse 65: "And He said, 'For this reason, I have said to you, no one can come to Me unless it has been given to him from My Father.' From that time, many of His disciples went back and walked no more with Him" (vs 65-66).

He said, v 62: "What if you shall see the Son of man ascending up where He was before?" Came down from heaven, said, 'What if you see Him going up?' The apostles saw that when He ascended to heaven.

John 8 becomes really quite a thing here. We covered part of this last time, but let's go ahead and review it again. Notice, because this tells us something very important, because He said:

John 8:38: "I speak the things that I have seen from My Father, and you do the things that you have seen from your father." Who was their father? Did they not say, 'God is our father.' Does this tell us from whence this doctrine comes?

Verse 39: "They answered and said to Him, 'Our father is Abraham.' Jesus said to them, 'If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has spoken the Truth to you, which I have heard from God; Abraham did not do this. You are doing the works of your father.'.…" (vs 39-41).

They said they were worshiping the Father. How could they worship the Father if He was not yet revealed?

"…Then they said to Him, 'We have not been born of fornication. We have one Father, and that is God.' Therefore, Jesus said to them, 'If God were your Father, you would love Me, because I proceeded forth and came from God.… [the Father] …For I have not come of Myself, but He sent Me. Why don't you understand My speech? Because you cannot bear to hear My words" (vs 41-43).

  • Why do people reject things? Because they can't stand to hear the Truth!
  • Why do they get involved in false doctrines? Because they want their own way rather than God's way!

If you want God's way always, when you see that you're wrong, incorrect, or sin, you repent and change. Were they doing that here? No!

They said, 'God is our Father,' referring to God the Father Who Jesus came to reveal. Jesus said, v 44: "You are of your father the devil…"

  • Does that tell us where that doctrine comes from?
  • Is this more than a simple mistake?


  • Does this kind of thing come from Satan the devil?
  • Where does all false doctrine come from? From Satan!

When they said, 'You're calling Yourself the Son of God, You're making Yourself equal with God,' and yet, if God were their Father, they would have accepted Him. You can't have it both ways. Go take a shower and stay dry; an oxymoron! Put out the fire; throw some gasoline on it.

Verse 44: "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you desire to practice…." What did they have to replace the Truth of God? They had the skeleton of the Truth of God. They had the:

  • Sabbath
  • Holy Days
  • Old Testament
  • prophecies of Jesus

They had all of those things. They could have known. But what did they have? They had their own traditions! That's what they practiced. What does that tell you about well-intentioned human traditions? Doesn't Satan come with benefits? Yes! {note sermon series: Judaism vs Scripturalism}

Jews place their traditions above God. Yes, so do the Catholics. Who is their father when that happens? 'He who is of God hears God. He who is not of God, does not hear God.'

"…the lusts of your father you desire to practice. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has not stood in the Truth because there is no Truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he is speaking from his own self; for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I speak the Truth, you do not believe Me. Which one of you can convict Me of sin? But if I speak the Truth, why don't you believe Me? The one who is of God hears the words of God. For this reason you do not hear, because you are not of God'" (vs 44-47). The god that you claim as your father is the devil! With this coming into the Church, who's inspiring this? Is it God? or Is it Satan?

John 17—this is the true Lord's prayer, because this was His prayer. Think of what He had to do to bring to the memory of John to write this down. Think what a tremendous thing that was. You read all of John 17 and that's the outline of all of the plan of God together.

John 17:1: "Jesus spoke these words, and lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, 'Father, the hour has come; glorify Your own Son, so that Your Son may also glorify You; since You have given Him authority over all flesh… [that's a lot, every human being] …in order that He may give eternal life to all whom You have given Him…. [the firstborn, the Church of the Firstborn] …For this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God…'" (vs 1-3).

  • Why did He say that?
  • What did He say to the rich man who came to Him and said, 'Good Master, what things should I do to inherit eternal life?'? 'Don't call Me good; there's only one Who is good'!

Most of them miss the point and the Protestants don't have a clue about this. Jesus had to carry the law of sin and death within Him. As long as He was in the flesh He was not true God. He was God manifested in the flesh for the purpose of becoming the sacrifice for the sins of the world. When you hear someone say, 'We believe in the incarnation, 100% God/100% man.' You can't have both together except as a begettal and a birth and human flesh.

  • Was Jesus fully God after the resurrection? Yes!
  • Was He fully God when He was giving this prayer? No, He wasn't!

He had not yet gone through the agony of the crucifixion.

Verse 3: "For this is eternal life… [that is when you receive it] …that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You did send. I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work that You gave Me to do" (vs 3-4).

The Protestants read that and say, 'That's the crucifixion.' No, that had not yet taken place. The work that He was given to do that He finished was preaching the Gospel and training the apostles, bearing witness to the world. He finished that, but now He was about to enter in to the time of the crucifixion. What did He say later, just before He died, when He was on the cross? 'It is finished!'

Verse 5: "And now, Father, glorify Me with Your own self, with the glory that I had with You before the world existed."

If the God of the Old Testament were the Father, then you have to say Christ was not the God of the Old Testament, and now you must create a new doctrine to explain about Christ, the only Begotten. What do you come up with? He did not exist until He was conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary!

  • A little leaven leavens the whole lump!
  • One false doctrine leads to another false doctrine!

That's how all these traditions in Catholicism and Judaism and every other religion came about!

Scriptures Referenced:

  • 2-Samuel 7:12-14
  • Isaiah 9:6
  • Psalm 89:20-26
  • Deuteronomy 32:6-8
  • Isaiah 63:15, 8, 15-16
  • Isaiah 64:8
  • John 3:13, 10-14
  • John 1:18
  • Genesis 32:29-30
  • John 1:18
  • John 5:17-20, 36-37
  • John 12:27-30
  • John 6:33-42, 46, 65-66, 62
  • John 8:38-47
  • John 17:1-5

Scriptures referenced, not quoted:

  • John 14
  • Psalm 89:1
  • Deuteronomy 32:5
  • Genesis 11

Also referenced:

  • Sermon: News, Flesh & Bone, & New Testament Fraud
  • Sermon Series: Judaism vs Scripturalism

Transcribed: 2-13-18
Reformatted/Corrected: bo—5/2020