Godly Love vs. Carnal Love 1: Part 1

Godly Love vs. Carnal Love #1

Fred Coulter

Well, during this Feast of Unleavened Bread it also happens to be the time of the world’s counterfeit, doesn’t it, of Easter? They’ve got some gal walking around here dressed up as an Easter bunny, passing out chocolate goodies to the kids and things like that. And we’re not going to invite her in here [laughter]. But you see there’s always the true, and there’s always the counterfeit. And sometimes the counterfeit can work like it looks like it’s true, but it’s really not. And so, likewise I think we need to understand that the most important thing we can do to be unleavened in Christ is to really have the love of God, and to really understand it. And it’s like one woman said, which I thought was very profound, she said, “You know, the problem that we’ve had is that the ministers never loved the brethren.” Which was, I thought a very true and a very profound statement. And the reason that was, is because they had the wrong kind of love. Now in the Greek there are four different words for love. So we’re going to look at those today, and we’re going to look at the counterfeit carnal love, which in a way can be made to appear to be godly love. But it’s an impossibility.

Now that first kind of love is eros, from which we get the word erotica. And that is earthly love, carnal love, and the world is driven by erotica. Eros love is what makes the world go round. And every religion in the world is based upon some sort of eros love, isn’t it? And are not their buildings erected to exemplify eros love, with the steeples and all of the crosses and things that go with it? All of that goes back to ancient Greek philosophy. Now let me read you from Plato, and this is very interesting, Plato Symposium, 180-A. And if you have a computer you can get on-line and pull it down. The Greek pagan way was that eros love, if you diligently applied yourself and used eros love in it’s highest erotic sense, that it would please the gods and you therefore could have salvation by that.

Now this eros love, or carnal love which I will call it. Let me read you from this. And this has to do with Achilles, one of the gods of the Greeks. And, he had a choice to go ahead and slay Hector who had captured his lover, being a male lover you see. So it’s no wonder that we have homosexuality in the world the way that we do because you see, eros love always degenerates to the perversion. So “Achilles bravely chose to go and rescue his lover Petropolis, and avenge him, and sought death not merely in his behalf…” In other words he was saying, “Alright. I will go give my life to save my lover.” “But in haste to be joined with him, whom death had taken, for this the gods so highly admired him they gave him distinguished honor.” Salvation by works. So when you have carnal love you have salvation by works. This leads to what? The kind of things that you see in the religions of the world. Monasteries, where you deprive yourself and you beat the flesh. And Buddhism is based on that. A lot of Catholicism and Orthodox is based on that. And this carnal love then seeks to attain to a spirituality through the elemental spirits of the world. So isn’t it interesting that all religions sooner or later get into some sort of mysticism going beyond just the rudimentary outside definitions of what they do.

Now, “They sought to give him honor since he set so great a value on his lover. And not Petropolis alone, still being beardless and moreover much younger. There is no sort of valor more respected by the gods than that which comes from eros. Yet their even more admiring and delighted and benefit when the beloved is found of his lover, and when the lover is found of his favorite, since a lover is filled as he is with a god.” So eros/carnal love eventually gets into demonism. “And that surpasses his favorite divinity.” So this is my description of eros. So I have it both in the English and the Greek text.

Now, agape love, which comes from God is different. We’ll talk about that a little later.

Now here’s what we have to understand. It is completely wrong to conclude that the most refined and idealistic carnal love can be equal to Godly love. Now there are a lot of good, nice people out in the world that just have carnal love. And they are what you would call good, decent people in the society, aren’t they? And then you have the whole form of it going from there on down into the perversion of whatever level that it degenerates into. But none of them have Godly love. Now they may have something that looks close to it but it’s really not the kind of Godly love that God wants us to have because that comes from Him. So you cannot…the basic thing is this…you cannot make carnal love Godly love. It’s an impossibility. Now agape is a different kind of love and you can’t take the best of eros, or the best of the next kind of love, one of the other kinds of love we’ll talk about, which is philea, or phileo, either the verb or the noun and combine those together. The Bible does speak of a family love called starge love, but it also talks about the third kind, which is philea, which is friendship love. Now the Bible talks about philea. Remember what Jesus asked Peter. Jesus said, “Peter, son of Jonah, do you love [agape] Me?” Peter said, “Yes Lord, I love [phileo] you.” So He asked him three times and finally Christ reduced it down to phileo, but what did He say in the whole thing? “If you love Me feed My sheep, feed My lambs.”

Now then. Something else that is really interesting. Eros is not found in the New Testament. Another thing that is interesting. Agape, Godly love, is not found in the heathen writings of the Greeks except Philo, and I think once by Josephus. That’s it. So agape love, as defined in the Bible, is that kind of love which comes from God. And so, God inspired the apostles to really bring out that agape love is the love which comes from God. Now the counterfeit love that the world has, and you can see this, they take eros love and phileo love and they combine that together so they have a camaraderie type of thing, because phileo means camaraderie, friendship love, a brotherly love, and therefore you find most of the secret societies are based upon the combination of both of those, correct? If you belong to the club, you’re welcome. If you’re not, you’re unwanted. But we glad-hand everybody. Now you see, that’s what happened in the Church of God. They did not have the agape love which comes from God. I’m sure many people were trying to. And I’m sure many people were wanting that kind of love, but when things evolved into such a way that the love could not be expressed, and love was not taught, then what was the substitute? Carnal eros / phileo love combined together, which when you first encounter it is a fairly good counterfeit of agape love. But agape love goes beyond, because you see the carnal friendship love very seldom endures trials and difficulties and problems. It takes a deeper love to do that. So let’s talk about agape.

Agape love. Well, first of all, this kind of love, agape love is the essence of God-likeness. Now what did God call us to become? Like Him. What is the most important thing that we need? The love of God. That’s what we need. And I think it’s true. Herbert Armstrong expressed it this way, he said in his later years, “Brethren, I don’t think any of you get it.” And I don’t think he was realizing what he was really saying, because he was not talking about the love of God at that time. He was talking about restoring the 18 truths, of which none of them say the love of God. So that was totally missing.

Agape love must come from God. Agape love comes down to man. Now let’s go to John 3:16 because this shows the epitome of agape love. “For God so loved [agape] the world,…” Now think about the world. God has a greater love than we do. We are told not to love the world, neither the things in the world, for the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life are all of the world and are going to perish. But the one who is doing the will of God shall abide forever, correct? Yes. So God looks down on this earth and He’s got His plan. And He’s going to work His plan. And it’s going to be spectacular, brethren. It is going to be absolutely amazing. But we’ve got to get the point that God loves us. And what God is doing, He’s doing because He loves the world. He’s eventually going to save the world, but He doesn’t want to do it without us. That’s why He’s called us now, to prepare. And how can we help the world if we don’t learn the love of God, and we don’t teach the love of God, how are we going to help them if we become a God-being, which the very essence of God likeness is agape love? How can we help them if we don’t have the love of God? Let’s ask it another way. How can you become a son of God if you don’t have the love of God? It won’t work.

Now you understand why God had to do what He’s done to the Church? Not only did we have false doctrine, but we had false love. We had a false sense of understanding. And when you really have the love of God, that’s the place to begin and to finish. Everything else flows from that. That’s what this verse is telling us. That God came down. That the One who became Jesus Christ divested Himself of all of His divinity, and all of being God and humbled Himself. And if you think you’ve gone through trials and difficulties and have been humbled, understand that God did that. If you’ve been called and you’ve given up something, understand what God gave up to give to you. “…That He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth [is believing]…” And if you’ve gotten my tapes for any length of time you’ll know that whenever I come to “eth” I will tell you that in modern English that means “ing”. Whenever you see “eth” it is a present tense participle in the Greek, meaning “the one who is believing in”, constantly believing. Not one day a week. Not when you go to church. Constantly believing. Then one other thing that’s very important. It says, “…in Him…”, but in the Greek there is a three letter word, “eis”, pronounced “ice”, much like the German, “eis”. And it means “into”, which is expressing a spiritual relationship that with the Spirit of God coming from God to you, into you, baring the fruits of the Spirit, it goes back into Christ. So that has quite a bit of meaning when you put that together, you see. So, “…whosoever [is believing] in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Now, we know in Romans 5, it talks about what Christ did. Let’s go there. This is important to understand. It’s one thing to have a brotherly love to love those who love you, isn’t it? But it’s another thing to love an enemy. And it’s a greater thing to give your life for an enemy, that your enemy may become your friend. Now let’s pick it up here in Romans 5:8. “But God commendeth His love toward us,…” See, love coming down from God to us. “…In that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” Now Paul could write this with meaning, right? No question about it, because Paul was one of the most implacable enemies of Christ. He understood it. After he was converted he understood it. “…While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.” (Rom. 5:8-9). See, because verse 7 says… let’s go back to verse 6. “For when we were yet without strength, in due time…” That means at the set time. The very time appointed. I can talk a little bit more about that this afternoon concerning Abraham. And I’ll tell you one thing. We need to look and find, and understand that our relationship with God is based upon the relationship that Abraham had. That is central to our understanding brethren, and when you get the second edition of the Passover book, you’re going to understand it even more, that yes, the Passover is based upon the covenants with Abraham. And I understand that there’s been a lot of Judaism teaching going around. Brethren, please understand something. The Church of God was separated from Judaism beginning with John. And if you don’t have the series we’ve done, “Scripturalism vs. Judaism”, then write for it. You can’t finish doing the spiritual things with physical things. And that’s all Judaism is going to do. Please understand this, that Judaism is not in covenant with God. Only those through Christ who have the Spirit of God, and truly keep the Passover of God, based upon the promises given to Abraham, only those are in covenant with God.

Now, a lot of people accuse me of being anti-Semitic. I am not. But I want you to understand the true reality toward Christ and God and the world, because there are going to be many people coming around teaching many things. Someone sent me six tapes of someone showing how we should keep a Seder with our Passover. Brethren, that’s not of God. Jesus never told us that. He died at the set time for the ungodly. Now that’s God’s love that He died for the ungodly. “For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die” (Rom. 5:7). But Christ has done that for us. Now that is true Godly love.

Now let’s come to John 6, and let’s understand something about our calling. We have been called to join a church. The church is the body of Christ, that is all of those believers who have the Spirit of God. That is the assembly, or the Church. God has not called us to join an organization. Because an organization is a carnal, corporate thing. God has called us to be His very sons. And God the Father is the one Who has done it. And I think one of the most encouraging things that can ever be is this…and I know every one of us, we’re going to hit bottom. How many here didn’t have any trials last year. [laughter] Not one hand raised, right? And sometimes you hit the very bottom, don’t you? And especially with all the troubles and difficulties going on in the Church, you wonder where is God? Why is God? What is happening? How can I see my way out of this? And the people that you looked up to, why some of them have no more belief in God than a Protestant. And you wonder how could that happen? And you get all low. And I think it’s something. God wants us to come to that point. Now why? Because He loves us. Not out of cruelty. Not out of hatred. But so that you understand the great love of God. Because sometimes you can’t really appreciate anything until you have been to the bottom. Or as we could put it this way, walking through your own valley of death. Remember this when you get there, and I know I’ve been there, and I know I’ve had to ask God at the lowest point in my life, “God heal my soul.” So remember this, John 6:44. “No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him:…” God the Father, the greatest being in the universe, is the one Who activated the calling in your life. Do you understand that? That is profound. God has called you. “…And I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God” (John 6:44-45). Whatever you have learned brethren, from the scriptures, through God’s Spirit, through the experiences, through the things you’ve gone through, the Father’s the one Who’s teaching you all this, because you have the Holy Spirit of the begettal of the Father in you, correct? And His seed remains in you. That seed of eternal life. So God is the one Who’s teaching.

Let me just mention this. Wherever I go we have a lot of long-time members who’ve been in the Church of God. And I guess I’m one of them. [Laughter] And we’re all getting closer to the inevitable. Either the return of Christ, or the place of safety in the grave. Now that’s not the place of safety, but it is a place of safety. And God wants all the long-time brethren to be perfected, to learn. And I know we have many on the mailing list that are retired and said, “Send me tapes, send me tapes, send me tapes, send me tapes. I listen to two, three, four a day.” Why? I don’t want them following me. No. It’s a vehicle that God can use to perfect them. God wants them perfected you see. Like Abraham. He died a ripe old age. Now there are two times you’re ripe. [Chuckle] Just before birth. And all mothers know this. The belly is so big and so tight and you feel like you’re walking with a 20 pound watermelon stuffed in there, and you are ripe. And if you thump it just right, like a watermelon, you can tell birth is just right around the corner. [Laughter].

The other time when you’re ripe is when you get old and feeble and gray. It’s like ancient Israel. He was 147 years old, and he said, “Joseph, bring your sons, Ephriam and Manasseh here.” He was in bed, on his deathbed. And he got out of bed, and he was so weak he had to stand up and lean on his staff. And after he got stood up there he, being blind, he put his hands to bless Ephriam, and bless Manasseh. And Joseph figured, “Well, he’s old and doesn’t know what he’s doing, and blind.” And he says, “Father, you put your hand on the wrong one.” And he says, “I know what I’m doing. I know.” Then he died. Was God pleased that he died in the faith? Yes. Is God pleased that many, many brethren are going to die in the faith? And we’re going to see that brethren. Yes, because they have accomplished, and will arrive at the resurrection. And so part of what we do is to help tuck them safely in the grave. And that is pleasing in the sight of God. You see, all the eros glory of the discipline and razzmatazz and all of the stuff that is substituted for the love of God is all going to come to an end. But God wants them all taught.

Had an 87-year-old woman come up to me yesterday. Gave me a great big hug. She says, “Oh, thank you. Thank you.” She says, “I really understand now.” She says, “I never got it in the past.” But she says, “I understand now.” I hope she lives to be as old as she can be. When I go to Boise, and go into Ruth Kennedy’s, and she’s 92. And she was one of the first persons I met when I went over to pastor Boise in 1965.

Let’s continue on. “Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto Me” (vs. 45). So that’s what God wants.

Let’s go back here to 1 John 4. This is important for us to understand and really realize, brethren. That the love of God has come down. And with the Spirit of God, God wants you to experience the love of God. In order to experience the love of God there are going to be trials, there are going to be difficulties, there’s going to be pain and suffering. Did not Christ have trials and difficulties, and pain and suffering? Was He not alone and rejected and despised? Yes, He was. Can you imagine that? The creator of all that there is came to His own and was rejected. Came to His creation and it killed Him. Yet, He loved them.

Let’s pick it up in verse 5. And this is the separation that’s taking place today, right now. “They are of the world:…” And I couldn’t believe it. I just read in a recent Worldwide News article that there is sufficient validity for us to keep the celebration (note the word celebrate), so they said there is sufficient evidence that we ought to celebrate the crucifixion and the resurrection the same time the world does. Well, I don’t read that in the Bible. I read here, “They are of the world: therefore [they] speak of the world, and the world heareth them” (1 John 4:5). Why? Because they are leaving agape love and going to eros / phileo love. That’s what they’re doing. Trying to take the best of human carnal love to make it godly love. And in that then they are making a religion. They are leaving the way of life and going to make a religion. God has called us to a way of life, not a religion. Now the world can look at us and say we are religious. But God looks at us and says, “You’re My sons and daughters.” Totally different.

Notice verse 6. “We are of God:…” Now brethren, I want you to understand that. You’ve got to know you are of God. And know that you know. Now, we’re living in some terrible, terrible times. I feel so sorry and devastated for those people that had to go through those tornadoes back there in Alabama. Can you imagine a 250 mph wind? It just took this one couple right out of their house. Destroyed their house and threw them three blocks down the street in a ditch. Now, we better have ears to hear, and eyes to see and understand that God is not pleased with what’s going on. Therefore the only way we’re going to survive is know we are of God. And not to be bragging. Not to be boasting. But to be thankful and grateful, and understand we have nothing we did not receive, and it all comes from God. And it’s a wonderful thing, brethren.

“We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.” And we are living in the days when that is being repeated exactly the same way. The spirit of error has entered into the Church. “Beloved, let us love one another:…” And I tell you brethren, the Feast of Tabernacles this year, I think was really an epitome of this. We had a wonderful feast, wherever we were because all the brethren were there to worship and serve and love God, and love each other. And it was just tremendous. Really wonderful. And I know some of you have gone to feasts where it’s just been a bust. And God doesn’t want that. “…For love is of God;…” Now the word “of” here comes from the Greek ek, meaning “out from”. Love, agape, coming out from, down to. Ek. “…And every one that loveth [is loving] is born [begotten] of God, and knoweth God” (1 John 4:6-7). Now notice the “eth” is there again. Every one who is loving, on a constant ongoing basis, is begotten of God and is knowing God on a constant ongoing basis.

“He [the one who] that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.” The very essence of god-likeness is love, agape. “In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.” That’s why Christ came. “Herein is love, not that we loved God,…” Not that we’re so good to tell God what to do. Not that we’re so good that we go to God and demand this and that, and the other thing. Not so. “…But that He loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins” (vs. 8-10). And that’s where grace comes from. Grace is not forgiveness in advance. Grace is the whole status of your standing before God. And it’s kind of like an umbrella that is the expression of the love of God that His grace is given to you, that you stand in that love, and you stand in that grace, and you receive those blessings of God, you have the Spirit of God. And so, if you sin, when you repent then you have forgiveness. See, not like the world says. Propitiation, and that means constant. Therefore you don’t have to be fearful. Therefore you don’t have to worry. And I’ll tell you this, the best way to overcome is really learn the love of God, because with the love of God you can overcome more things, because you’re concentrating on doing the greatest thing that God want’s you to do, that is love Him and love each other. And in doing that, aren’t you going to eliminate a lot of sins and judgments and things like that, that come along? Yes, no question about it.

“Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also…” Now that means “duty bound”. “…To love one another.” But I tell you, the Church has just been torn asunder. And it’s hard to love one another. I mean, we’ve got a double duty to overcome, don’t we? We have depressions, cynicism, turned-offness, whatever you want to call it, you know. Apathy, lethargy. All of those to overcome. Because people will say, “Well yeah, I heard that before.” Well, we need to get to the love of God so we understand it. “No man hath seen God at any time.” And aren’t we thankful. Can you imagine what it would be if a human being had seen God? What would he do? “I have seen God! Who are you?” Let Satan get ahold of that and twist and pervert that. Wooo. See, that’s why. We’re not going to see God until we’re resurrected. “If we love one another, God dwelleth in us,…”, notice the “eth”, dwelling. God is dwelling. See we are the temple of God. “…And His love is perfected in us” (vs. 11-12). And this is what God wants. He wants that love perfected. Growing in it. And that requires trials, challenges, difficulties. Some of them almost insurmountable. Why? Because we’re not dealing just in physical carnal things. We’re dealing in the things which are leading to eternal life.

“Hereby know we that we dwell in Him, and He in us, because He hath given us of His Spirit. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God [is dwelling] dwelleth in him,…” Of course, you put all of the other factors together. That means truly confessing because you have the Spirit of God, truly believing because you have the Spirit of God, truly knowing and understanding and God is dwelling in you. “…And he in God” (vs. 13-15).

“And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth [is dwelling] in love dwelleth [is dwelling] in God, and God in him” (vs. 16). And if there’s any one thing, brethren, that God wants us to do and to really get the point, is to understand the love of God. Now I know I’ve preached a lot on it and I think I’m just beginning to understand it myself now. It’s one thing to have a good flesh feeling in your heart. It’s one thing when you’re praying and studying and understanding and God’s Spirit moves you to understand His love, or when you are lying there awake at night in bed and all you can do is just lie there and pray and cry out to God, and you know that God loves you and the tears just stream down. I don’t now if you’ve ever experienced that, but you will and you should. God wants you to because He wants you to know that He loves you. See, and that’s what it’s all about. God is love. Christ is dwelling in us. The Father is dwelling in us, and we’re dwelling in them, and the whole sum of it is, is finished with the Feast of Tabernacles. Not only that, we will dwell with them.

“Herein is our love made perfect,…” So there’s the task set before us. “Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment:…” Now what’s going to see you to the day of judgment better than anything else - the love of God. Yes, see. And I think this too, brethren. How can you have brotherly love if you don’t love God first. You can’t really truly have brotherly love unless you love God first. “…Because as He is, so are we in this world” (vs. 17).

“There is no fear in love;…” And that is so profound. That’s why Paul was not called Mr. Tarsus. That’s why John was not called Mr. Zebedee. Called John. Because all those artificial things bring fear. How many here have been fearful in the Church? All of us, right? How did you feel? Much love of God? No. How did you feel when the minister picked up the phone and says, “I’m coming by to visit.” You probably felt, “Oh, what did I do?” No, God wants it to where the ministers love the brethren, the brethren love the ministers, and we all love each other because we all love God first. “There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth [is casting] out fear:…” Present tense participle. It “is casting” it out. So there again is the process. Love is overcoming that fear. Casting it out. Putting it away. Not that you become audacious and carnally bold. But that you truly become humble and filled with the love of God. That’s what it’s all about. “…Because fear hath torment.” When you were fearful and living in fear, what happened? Sleepless nights, right? Yes. I’ve gone through that. I know what that’s like. Not very pleasant. Did it accomplish anything? No. Was it of God? No. Now notice, “He that feareth is not made perfect in love” (vs. 18). See, because you must let the love of God be casting out those fears.

It’s kind of like this: some people come along and they have a doubt. Now what do you do with a doubt? A lot of people say, “Oh, I shouldn’t doubt. [pffft] Get that out of my mind.” And you go along and doodle-lo-do-lo-ding, the doubt comes back. “I thought I put that away. I shouldn’t think that way.” [pffft] No, what you do if you have a fear, if you have a doubt. You grab a hold of it when it comes along…

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